American woman on sex in Pakistan and Pakistan woman rebutting her

American Versus Pakistani Women on Sex-- and Hymenoplasty Clinics in Pakistan

Wednesday, July 3, 2013

 

American Versus Pakistani Women on Sex-- and Hymenoplasty Clinics in Pakistan

 

 

Comment of a Pakistani woman on the article Lets Talk about sex in Pakistan -Jeanette Khan

Posted: Aug 31, 2009 Mon 11:10 pm     Views: 2416    Interacts: 1

 

 

Lets Talk about sex in Pakistan

 

by

 

Jeanette Khan

Originally Published in Huffington Post

 

I'm a red-blooded woman. I'm comfortable talking about sex and all aspects regarding it. As a full-fledged member of the Millennials, I'm accustomed to asking people "Are you a virgin?"

In Pakistan there is no such thing as sex-education. People mostly learn about sex through their married friends or first-hand experience. When I was a young teenager I told my year-younger female cousin about sex. My aunt became enraged and told me that'd she find out about it the night before she gets married. I was stunned; I just didn't understand how someone could find out what sex is right before the wedding.

Playboys are smuggled into the country. That same year I explained sex to my cousin, her older brother confessed to having a Playboy hidden in the storage room in his house. It was the one with Ginger Spice, Geri Halliwell on it.

A few years later, as a late teen, on another trip to Pakistan, my friend Nadia told me that teenagers were having sex; they would go to their houses when the parents weren't home. My older male cousin also told me he knew of a girl who had gotten pregnant.

Before my cousin got married, I asked if sex had been explained to her. My aunt said that she had friends who had recently gotten married so they explained it to her. I wanted her to know her rights and that she had the ability to say "no" and that sex is something to be enjoyed for both parties, not just one. There is actually a celebration in Pakistan for consummating the relationship, it's called the Valima and it's held the night after the wedding. It seems so odd that there would be an actual celebration for the consummation, but no real explanation about sex.

I have another friend here who isn't married and when I asked if she knew what sex was, she said she didn't. Even after all these years my mouth still fell open in shock. Our other friend is married, and she just looked at me as if to keep quiet. Pakistan has become more Western in a lot of areas, but clearly not in this one.

 

 

Here, there is no "flirting." I've tried to flirt with men, but normally get told off. Once I was in the car with my aunt, who's a bit conservative, and she noticed me staring at this guy next to us. She told me not to stare as it doesn't look nice. How exactly it doesn't look nice, I don't know, I thought to myself.

I've even gotten in trouble for shaking a man's hand during business meetings. I suppose my American-aggressiveness came into play. My father, a Pakistani-American, has always told me to give a firm handshake because it tells a lot about a person. After a brief meeting with a man at a coffee shop, I stuck out my hand to shake. He looked at me confused and fumbled when shaking my hand. Later in the car my aunt told me that shaking hands is a no-no between the sexes.

Sexual expression is fully repressed here, at least in front of families. Sometimes cousins are even kept apart after a certain age to dispel interaction. I'm not allowed to go to my aunt's house without the older family members because she lives in a huge joint-family system where there are a number of young adult unmarried men. I am an unmarried young female. When I do meet these cousins I just bow my head to greet them and that's the extent of our interaction.

 

 

That's not say that men and women don't date. They do, but always clandestinely. I've seen numerous couples and groups of men and women out eating and enjoying themselves. I didn't get the sense that people stared at them too much; it's become normal in some regard. But those families that allow their children to go out in mixed company are often more liberal and broad-minded.

I wanted to hang out with my elder male cousin alone one day. I just wanted to get a bite to eat and talk. The intricateness involved with the whole situation still astounds me to this day. He had to tell his parents that he was going out with some friends. He wouldn't even come to the door of his own grandmother's house to pick me up. He called me from his cell phone and I ran out to his car waiting outside the gate. My dad didn't care that I was hanging out with him alone. My cousin asked my father to tell everyone that he and I weren't going out. That he hadn't even been to the house. My dad said fine. My dad told the people back inside the house that I had gone out with a friend.

When my cousin and I went to dinner he looked so shocked. Even though I'm his cousin, and yes cousins intermarry in Pakistan, he'd never been alone with a girl in public before. I told him not to worry; there were other male and female people sitting alone together.

The thing is that Pakistan isn't so wholesome sexually when it doesn't want to be. Lahore even has a famous red light district, called Heera Mandi. Men go there and pay a few rupees to sleep with the girls, often young girls who have been kidnapped or have to sell their bodies to make money for their families. Other women are from generations of prostitutes; it's their only way to survive. The thing about it is everyone knows what goes on there, but nothing's really done about it, at least officially.

Pakistan is caught somewhere between sexual repression and sexual exploration; only time will tell where it goes next

.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COMMENTS BY A PAKISTANI WOMAN SUMERABIL

 

Posted by sumerabil on Friday January 1, 2010 08:48 am

Dear Jeanine khan

 

I am absolutely excited about commenting on your bold but rather superficial matter of fact know it all article on Pakistan's sex scene. It seems late but valid to tell you that your theories and experiences seem half cooked and have large holes in them.

 

Let me fill in those gaps a little for you. PARA BY PARA in bold and red colour so you UNDERSTAND and correct your facts.

 

 

so you say:

 

"I'm a red-blooded woman. I'm comfortable talking about sex and all aspects regarding it. As a full-fledged member of the Millennials, I'm accustomed to asking people "Are you a virgin?"

 

 

 

 

Uhhh….I wouldn't judge on that. But your article loses its credibility right there.you almost seem to have been voicing your own frustration or gone disappointed as if failed to gain any open gratified experience first hand.

 

 

 

"In Pakistan there is no such thing as sex-education. People mostly learn about sex through their married friends or first-hand experience. When I was a young teenager I told my year-younger female cousin about sex. My aunt became enraged and told me that'd she find out about it the night before she gets married. I was stunned; I just didn't understand how someone could find out what sex is right before the wedding."

 

 

 

 

Firstly "Sex-education" is a western terminology, because sex between any one any where out of the wedlock is encouraged and considered cool and hence is a norm! as are the terms flirting dating "sex industry" and "porn business" on the other forms of sexual provocation and gratification.( Snm Bondage animal sex same sex partners sex tools etc etc).

 

So its only natural that a society obsessed with all forms of sexual gratification as the means of ADDING VALUE TO their worldly experiences should be aware of it in an "educational form"

 

Pakistan seriously has many other issues at hand such as "formal education"!?!

 

Plus until the advent of the internet and access to internet porn in all its "glory" open sex as a topic was an idea was largely common in the west only.

 

Culturally speaking its not considered polite for children or parents in Pakistan to be discussing the most intimate processes like daily news, because its not expected of children until marriageable age (culturally 22 years or more for girls and 28 or more for men) to be going out to have OPEN sex in (bad bad Pakistan!!)

 

 

Especially girls is normal Pakistani urban families are trained to be focused on formal Education, professions and careers or pleasing their own families, and extended families or in-laws with their skills months after marriage rather than what to do perticularly on the wedding night?

 

Boys of that age are expected and are supposed to learn it from their elders that they feel comfortable talking to.

 

 

 

 

Playboys are smuggled into the country. That same year I explained sex to my cousin, her older brother confessed to having a Playboy hidden in the storage room in his house. It was the one with Ginger Spice, Geri Halliwell on it.

 

 

 

 

Smuggling of all things sellable in Pakistan isn't an issue. Plus we have always had a lot of local Urdu and English stuff available in book markets. That hassle is reduced by 2009 Instead now one could access it all with just one click.

 

 

 

 

A few years later, as a late teen, on another trip to Pakistan, my friend Nadia told me that teenagers were having sex; they would go to their houses when the parents weren't home. My older male cousin also told me he knew of a girl who had gotten pregnant.

 

 

 

 

Casual to heavy Dating, drinking, drugs leading to hormone charged Intercourse in teen is pretty common in boys and girls of the affluent classes. Most of them are nouveu rich with vulgar showoff with money made in emirates in the last 25 to 30 years in mostly the Middle East. Although educated these people follow the western culture with expos and are proud of it as a result their next generation is fantastically lost.

 

 

 

 

Before my cousin got married, I asked if sex had been explained to her. My aunt said that she had friends who had recently gotten married so they explained it to her. I wanted her to know her rights and that she had the ability to say "no" and that sex is something to be enjoyed for both parties, not just one. There is actually a celebration in Pakistan for consummating the relationship, it's called the Valima and it's held the night after the wedding. It seems so odd that there would be an actual celebration for the consummation, but no real explanation about sex.

 

 

 

 

Your decision to interfere and let your cousin know was perhaps misconceived. In an ideal concept of arranged marriage, the men are selected for their breed not for sexual attraction as in the cases of western marriages. It is expected for the groom to be kind and gentle of the girl he is getting married to. The girl should be comfortable in the knowledge that its not a one "night stand" but a partner ship of a life time.

 

The valima dinner by grooms family isn't "a celebration of consummation" it is a reciprocal of the wedding dinner by brides family and although consummation is expected by that time its not mandatory (incase if any partner feels uncomfortable abt it.)

 

 

 

 

I have another friend here who isn't married and when I asked if she knew what sex was, she said she didn't. Even after all these years my mouth still fell open in shock. Our other friend is married, and she just looked at me as if to keep quiet. Pakistan has become more Western in a lot of areas, but clearly not in this one.

 

 

 

 

Your last line of the Para clearly describes that westernization hasn't done us any favors in other areas. why should we add one more example of western cultures failure as our own??

 

 

 

 

Here, there is no "flirting." I've tried to flirt with men, but normally get told off. Once I was in the car with my aunt, who's a bit conservative, and she noticed me staring at this guy next to us. She told me not to stare as it doesn't look nice. How exactly it doesn't look nice, I don't know, I thought to myself.

 

 

 

 

Flirting is a western concept. Yet locally there are playful, more cultured examples of showing interest politely and by "NOT BEING SEXUALLY AGGRESSIVE" such as small talk, jokes sharing, emailing, and text messaging, or playing competitive sports that are norm in Pakistani culture. In your aforementioned experience the man probably just didn't feel attracted to you and hence didn't want to lead you on. We all know how irritating could that be.

 

 

 

 

I've even gotten in trouble for shaking a man's hand during business meetings. I suppose my American-aggressiveness came into play. My father, a Pakistani-American, has always told me to give a firm handshake because it tells a lot about a person. After a brief meeting with a man at a coffee shop, I stuck out my hand to shake. He looked at me confused and fumbled when shaking my hand. Later in the car my aunt told me that shaking hands is a no-no between the sexes.

 

 

 

 

again an exaggeration in my experience as a working woman in Pakistan I have had no such problems. Men in Pakistan are very eager to let women be part of the industry here and would younger ones are a lot kinder in that regards. Studying and respecting other cultures and their difference is part of business curriculum that you seem totally ignorant of.(the staring at men and jumping to hand shake everyman to judge the some how you come across as the desperate type.)

 

 

 

 

Sexual expression is fully repressed here, at least in front of families. Sometimes cousins are even kept apart after a certain age to dispel interaction. I'm not allowed to go to my aunt's house without the older family members because she lives in a huge joint-family system where there are a number of young adult unmarried men. I am an unmarried young female. When I do meet these cousins I just bow my head to greet them and that's the extent of our interaction.

 

 

 

 

Uh again its not a topic of discussion as pleasant as umm the weather or tv dramas or movies or the political setup or business etc. and with your afore mentioned "red bloodedness" and "American-aggressiveness" even I as an educated liberal woman would be a little uncomfortable taking you anywhere near my young cousins!!

 

 

 

 

That's not say that men and women don't date. They do, but always clandestinely. I've seen numerous couples and groups of men and women out eating and enjoying themselves. I didn't get the sense that people stared at them too much; it's become normal in some regard. But those families that allow their children to go out in mixed company are often more liberal and broad-minded.

 

 

 

 

Because most of us aren't red bloodied or aggressive in an Americanized way we are considered normal to be courted with people we feel safe with. Most of urban Pakistan is very flexible that way.

 

 

 

 

I wanted to hang out with my elder male cousin alone one day. I just wanted to get a bite to eat and talk. The intricateness involved with the whole situation still astounds me to this day. He had to tell his parents that he was going out with some friends. He wouldn't even come to the door of his own grandmother's house to pick me up. He called me from his cell phone and I ran out to his car waiting outside the gate. My dad didn't care that I was hanging out with him alone. My cousin asked my father to tell everyone that he and I weren't going out. That he hadn't even been to the house. My dad said fine. My dad told the people back inside the house that I had gone out with a friend.

 

 

 

 

No wonder he was hesitant. You haven't shown any respect to this culture so he had to make sure that every body knew that he wasn't going with a judgmentally lost woman. You probably pushed the guy too much. I admire your cousin's courage to TAKE YOU OUT.

 

 

 

 

When my cousin and I went to dinner he looked so shocked. Even though I'm his cousin, and yes cousins intermarry in Pakistan, he'd never been alone with a girl in public before. I told him not to worry; there were other male and female people sitting alone together.

 

 

 

 

I just think he was embarrassed by your demeanor in public. Taking a woman out in Pakistan (large urbanized areas like Lahore, Karachi, and Islamabad) is NO BIG DEAL!!

 

 

 

 

The thing is that Pakistan isn't so wholesome sexually when it doesn't want to be. Lahore even has a famous red light district, called Heera Mandi. Men go there and pay a few rupees to sleep with the girls, often young girls who have been kidnapped or have to sell their bodies to make money for their families. Other women are from generations of prostitutes; it's their only way to survive. The thing about it is everyone knows what goes on there, but nothing's really done about it, at least officially.

 

 

 

 

Wish you had done a piece on their plight rather than focusing your energies on defending what happens in heera mandi should be made a open practice.

 

 

 

 

I fail to understand why should any one from any society, religion, country should think to be enforcing open sex in Pakistan, or that we should make a culturally morally degrading task of illegal sex an open industry or topic of educational discussion in young generation so sexually starved people like you can give us passing marks?

 

 

 

 

Pakistan is caught somewhere between sexual repression and sexual exploration; only time will tell where it goes next.

 

 

 

 

And like any developing country we will survive and find a way. Whatever happened to the right to live our own life as a culture? Don't come condescending with your western values and passing judgments and forcing your rules on us!!

 

Unfortunately you have done what most misguded and complexed desis born and bred or educated abroad do! misinterpret their own culture traditions and values. to sell their talent, by twisting real facts, they turn to trashing their own kind.

 

 

 

--

Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."  --

Albert Einstein !!!

 

Sexually Active Pakistani Women Resorting to Hymenoplasty

 




















Sexually Active Pakistani Women Resorting to Hymenoplasty

Amir Mir

Hymenoplasty or restoration of ruptured hymen was one secret most Pakistanis knew was practised clandestinely. They'd whisper the addresses of doctors performing the surgery to harried girls keen to reclaim their virginity weeks before their nuptial night. Call it the irony or hypocrisy of our times, but even as Islamists seek to impose their worldview on a schizophrenic society, hymenoplasty is witnessing a boom. Doctors now advertise in English newspapers, on the internet and walls of shops on busy street corners. All this is good news for girls who have had premarital sex but for some reason didn't marry their partners, as it is for those who tore their hymen accidentally. Persuaded or compelled into betrothal, they dread the wedding night. In a society where premarital sex is a religious taboo and family honour is perceived to lie in the daughter-in-law's intact hymen, many a women have been divorced instantly or paid with their lives for not bleeding on the wedding night.




For these girls, hymenoplasty offers a chance to shroud their past in a recreated hymen. Classified as cosmetic surgery, hymenoplasty was exported here from the UK, where the surgery became popular among Pakistani girls who experimented with sex but found, to their horror, parents marrying them to orthodox boys back home. Re-virgination began in Karachi, came to Islamabad and has become quite a rage in Lahore. Performed at $500, or Pakistani Rs 40,000, hymenoplasty is usually resorted to by sexually-liberated upper class girls for whom the price of surgery is too small for a lifetime of marital tranquility.




Nor is the hymenoplasty procedure cumbersome. Performed under local anaesthesia, the surgery could last anywhere between 30 minutes and two hours—and requires the person undergoing it to abstain from sex for three months. Developed first by Toronto-based plastic surgeon Dr Robert H. Stubbs, the procedure requires suturing of a tear in the hymen, or using tissue from the vaginal wall to restore it. Once the person with a mended hymen has sex, she experiences pain and, more significantly, bleeds, hoodwinking those Pakistani men who see in the stained bedsheet proof of their honour.




But the sharp spurt in hymenoplasty is a story more about Pakistan's sexual liberation than doctors coming out in the open—and the society accepting it. This is what I realised as I sought to gather details about it. My first port of call was Dr Farooq Nasim, who owns the Nasim Fertility Clinic in the middle-class locality of Johar Town in Lahore. As my photographer-friend turned his camera on Dr Nasim, he became apoplectic, curtly telling us that he hadn't even heard of hymenoplasty. Next, I talked to him over the phone, posing as a worried partner of a girl wanting to become a virgin again. Dr Nasim intoned: "I haven't heard of hymenoplasty."
I consequently requested journalist-friend Nida (name changed) to help me breach Dr Nasim's wall of caution. She dialled the mobile number advertised in newspapers; it was of Dr Nasim's assistant, from whom she sought an appointment for hymenoplasty. She was provided a token number that she was to spell out to the guard at the gate. And the gate promptly opened on D-day. Nida was ushered into Dr Nasim's chamber. The doctor's reticence evanesced at the sight of a prospective customer. "We charge only Rs 40,000; abroad, the operation costs $2,000 or more," he told Nida. "Since ours is a conservative society, we don't ask girls to register their names." Such benevolence helps pull in customers: Dr Nasim claims to have restored 300 hymens in the last two years alone.




Perhaps surprised to see Nida alone, the doctor said, "In most cases, girls come with a female friend or their partner. Since the procedure doesn't take more than a couple of hours, it's easy for customers to conceal the procedure." He then switched to playing pop sociologist: "Today's youth have gone beyond their parents' expectations (read morals)." And so have the doctors, you could say. Next, I turned to the internet. www.hopepk.com, for instance, offers hymenoplasty, provides a mobile number (0092-323-4195732) and an electronic appointment form. The address of the hospital where the operation is to be performed is divulged when the customer is given a date. The website belongs to a Lahore-based couple, Dr Sarfaraz Ahmed and Dr Yasmin Sarfaraz. Gynaecologist by training, it's Yasmin who performs hymenoplasty. During her telephonic conversation with Nida, Yasmin offered to perform both hymenoplasty and labiaplasty, which is a procedure to tighten vaginal muscles by reducing excess vaginal lining. "The result," the couple's website says, "is an immediate decrease in the size of vaginal muscles, resulting in more friction during intercourse." Labiaplasty is catching up among Pakistani upper classes Occasionally, doctors performing hymenoplasty resort to fake identities. For instance, Dr Syed Rizwanul Haq runs www.noorclinic.com, which, among other things, offers e-books on sex authored by one Dr Arshad Javed. Ask Dr Haq for Dr Javed's contacts and you draw a blank. The reason: Dr Haq and Dr Javed are the same person.




Dr Javed asked Nida to meet him at the Bio-Test Clinic, 681-Shadman I, Lahore. After undergoing stringent security and identity checks, she was ushered into his office. He was candid, "We have to be cautious because ours is a conservative society. I don't think the maulvis have any inkling about this phenomenon, otherwise they would have kicked up a ruckus!" As Nida furrowed her forehead, the doctor gratuitously clarified, "The girls coming to me include those who had injured themselves during sports. I'm helping them. I'm not doing anything illegal." (He said he had performed hymenoplasty on 100 girls in the last two years; the number relatively less because he advertises only on the website.)




The Pakistan Medical Association was unwilling to speak to Amir Mir on hymenoplasty. But its senior member spoke on condition of anonymity, "Whatever the legal position, I won't condemn it as it is for someone's good." And, obviously, good for the sexually liberated who feel stifled in a restrictive society. Their numbers, as the booming hymenoplasty business shows, is high—and growing.